posted 07-10-2003 11:19 AM         

This has been reported and debated widely, but I want to get some important info out for new owners. If you read and use this info, please "bump" it back to the top for other owners.

In March 2001 VW issued Technical Service Bulletin 1701-01, "Oil Consumption, Evaluating." (WRITE DOWN THAT NUMBER FOLKS!) It describes a process for testing the oil consumption in your 2.0 engine. Pretty simple, bring it to the dealer and have a "tech" pull the dipstick every 1,000 miles. While they will tell you 1 quart per 1,000 miles is "within range", there is a fix if it higher than that, (or you wave a lawyer in their face).

The warranty fix is called "Cylinder de-glazing and ring replacement" and amounts to a serious ripping apart and rebuilding of your engine, apparently to fix piston rings that are defective, or instaled upside down.

I have seen an invoice for someone who had this done under warranty on a 2002 Golf, so some dealers are trying to stand behind the product and fix a well-known and well documented problem.

I have a 2003 that has drank one quart in first 2,000 miles - might be break in, might be a sign o'trouble. I know of another 2003 owner who is undergoing the consumption test right now.

This is not something you can "fix" by switching to synthetic oil or changing viscosities. If you have this problem and get the runaround at your dealer, insist upon seeing TSB 1701-01 and insist upon getting your oil consumption formally monitored.

posted 07-10-2003 11:25 AM         

My addendum:
DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING! Consider wearing a consealed, small, voice recorder too.

posted 08-07-2004 09:57 AM         

I took it to the dealer, they said want to put a dye in the system, and bring it back after a certain time, to see how much oil its consuming.

posted 08-30-2004 09:45 AM            

I own a 2000 Jetta with a 5 speed, 2.0-liter engine with 95k miles on it. During the warranty period I did not think much about my car only that it did blow a far amount of oil …like 1 quart every 1000 miles. Sound familiar? I complained to the dealer only to be dismissed or blown off each and every time…. All I got was “this is normal” and they would show me the spec and sure enough it said a quart every 1000 miles was fine. I came to my own conclusion that they changed the spec to protect the guilty. As not to void the warranty I waited tell I passed the 36k mark to remove the intake manifold and installed just an OEM filter, which dramatically improved acceleration, installed sport springs, sport struts and big honking anti-sway bars on front and rear. Although the ride was a little stiff the car handled like a dream. I loved the car except for it blowing oil part.

As I approached 100k I knew I needed my timing belt replaced so I found a shop that specializes in BMW, Mercedes and VW. For 1300 bucks he would remove the pistons, replace the rings, hone out the cylinders, and replace the timing belt, and he suggested that I replace the water pump because it is driven by the timing belt and when the pump goes it takes out the timing belt. This was all done to spec called out in the VW service bulletin 1701-01.

Before he torn the motor down he did a compression test and a leak down test. Both are needed to truly tell what is going on. It had just OK compression test but it failed the leak down test. When he removed the pistons he said that the rings were the correct ones and in the correct positions but all lined up exactly the same. This is not correct; they should be rotated by 120 degrees so they all do not line up.

Now 6 months later I wanted to give the reader an update to the story. Having the piston rings replaced DID NOT fix the problem. My mechanic thinks the problem is that my valve seals are not correct. The question I would ask other Jetta owners with the same problem that took their car into the dealer and actually had the problem fixed. Can you check the paper work or the statement of work to see if they ALSO put new valve seals on your car? I believe VW is not being totally honest about this problem and how it can be rectified.

posted 08-30-2004 10:36 AM         

At that mileage I'd think a valve grind, seals and possibly valve guides would be in order. If the problem is in the head you've just duplicated a lot of labor.

When the shop did the rings did they check for bore taper and check for ring end gap before everything went back together?

When you say the rings were lined up, was that every pistion or just one? The compresion rings or the oil rings?

When they did the leak down test where did they hear the leakage? Exhaust/tailpipe or from removing the oil filler cap and hearing it or from the intake manifold?

Intake manifold =intake valves not seating
Tailpipe = exhaust valves not seating
Crankcase= rings

Did they do a "wet" compression test?

Something else, how long ago was this done, are you sure the rings have seated? You say 6 months but how many miles?

How much oil is the car using now?

During all the time the engine was using oil did you ever not pass a smog test or loose your converter?

For anyone not familiar with a leak down or compression test here are a couple of good links.
http://www.vclassics.com/archive/leakdown.htm http://www.geocities.com/dsmgrrrl/FAQs/compression.htm http://www.geocities.com/dsmgrrrl/FAQs/leakdown.htm

posted 09-23-2004 06:04 PM         

Is there any way to get out of the car completely and try to get some of the money we spent back? I bought my car for about $22,000 back in Jan 2001. I have only about 40,000 miles and my car is in great shape. They are offering me $8,800 for trade in on a new car. I don't think I WILL EVER BUY ANOTHER VW B/C of this!!! The only reason I am even thinking about buying a different car is b/c of one of their manufactoring defects.

Does anyone have any ideas? I am going to call some higher ups in the company and maybe the news?

posted 09-24-2004 03:57 PM         

Everyone have a wonderful weekend!!!

Sarah

posted 01-19-2005 05:33 PM         

As to VW coming to the party, I'd think not but it never hurts to ask.

What type and weight oil are you using? Also is this the first oil you've added?

posted 01-19-2005 08:01 PM         

But, as a Stop-Gap, try using an appropriate Group III or Group IV synthetic oil, such as Mobil 1, Shell's synthetic Rotell T 5w40 (or Helix if available in your country), Chevron Supreme Synthetic, Motul, Lubro-Moly, etc... Check out http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ for some eye opening oil info. Some brands are better than others. Some inexpensive oils are better than the fancy synthetics. I have seen a leaky/smoky Chevrolet V8 almost stop smoking when Shell's Rotella conventional 15w40 oil was used...musta made the valve guides real happy.

A perminant fix would be a Nissan (sarcasm).

Good Luck!

posted 01-19-2005 08:48 PM         

Oh, please share with us.

I think the real plague is something else.

octane102,

Yes, there has been some 2.0L with ring problems. Yes, you can use a higher viscosity oil, and see and actually perhaps leave it at that.

If you haven't, drain the oil, new filter, use the proper grade and viscosity fill correctly then drive and see what happens regarding oil usage.

The factory will say 1qt to 1,000 miles that's high in my opinion, but it is the "basic industry standard" a quart every 3 to 5 is more like it.

Are you a do it your selfer? Rings are not that tough of a job, and not that expensive in parts, but at 70,000 miles you might want to look at some other things while you're in there.

By any chance does the car smoke when it starts cold? How about on startup hot? Any smoke? Might want someone to stand behind the car or have someone start it as you stand behind it.

read rosco123456 post up a little on this page.

We tore down a 2.0L in our fllet that had high oil usage, what we found was it looked like the rings never seated, the original hone marks were VERY visible, bore taper was less than 1 thousands at 100,000 miles plus. I can give you the exact mileage later if you'd like. The rings were not installed upside down or lined up, they fit well in the ring lands, the valves were very clean even using a quart about every 1,200 miles.

We deglazed (honed) the cylinders, cleaned everything up, installed new rings, did a 3 step valve grind, checked valve guide clearance, within spec and resealed the guides.

The car now uses about 1/2 quart every 3,000.

Let us know, some of us can help.

posted 01-20-2005 08:43 AM         

There are also 4,000 "members" here, yet how many are active?

How many people come here looking for an answer only, because they have a SINGLE problem?

Of that 9,000+ how many are banter back and forth over the same subject? You have how many posts with the same information of what has happened to your car, that really only counts as 1 item. In a recent response that is counted in that 9,000 the response was simply

Wow!

Playing a numbers game is foolish, it makes something assume the importance it might not have.

Ok, you say you got screwed, ever notice in the posts, no one really disagrees with you on that? Even the pro side of the argument.

While some may nit pick minor items, like your mats, they have not ever said you didn't get a "bad one"

However, that being said, while YOU have a bad one, not everyone has one. Some may have a problem or 2 others may have more.

Our experience with the cars has been much better than most posting here, yet we have seen some of the same common items listed here fail also. Perhaps not to the extent that some have, yet common problems.

Look, a car is an emotional issue, from purchase onward, if it does not live up to expectations, it's emotional.

The laws, while there to protect you, for some seem difficult to get justice, and the time involved seems too long. Keep in mind that the manufactures help craft those laws.

I've read many of the posts here, you have a variety of views, yes, pro and con.

Regardless of the name of the site, it's tone and demeanor, people are going to post what has happened to them, both good and bad.

There are some, who are, well obsessed with try to prove that every VW sold is bad, that's simply not the truth.

The other thing disturbing is if as in a recent case someone is looking for an answer with a new car, looking to see if someone might have the same problem.

The result, a torrent by a few that try to put fear into that owner that they have made the wrong decision. In my mind that's just wrong.

If that happens to be the only couple of probelms the car has and the owner is happy with the resolution, then waht purpose does it serve to try and make that person feel bad about their purchase? None. In fact it works against you.

People go away and think nothing, or what a group of idiots and whiners.

This is a "Bitch" board. Ever see some of the most vocal compliners try to walk a person through the problems or the lemon process?

I saw a message yesterday, that was well meant about a car 18 years old, there is very little discussion here on that age of car. The poster in response advised the poster that the vortex might be the place to go. Helpful.

The response: Very nasty, for no reason and of course a demaning view of dealerships in general. It was uncalled for.

Yet the poster did offer some help to the original question, which if you look at the prvious response is exactly what was said "If someone has one"

posted 01-20-2005 02:45 PM         

"I had a bad oil burner. I had the ring and cylinder deglazing done and that didn't work either. These are terrible cars!

I bought mine new and it has burned oil from day one. Had to replace the whole engine and sued VW. Good luck. Still mad."

They screwed you? Let's see the re-ringed the engine, replaced the engine. Screwed?

Hardly on that item.

Keep in mind that todays techs mostly do not know the finer points of engine overhaul or even repairng an item, it's all geared to parts replacement, something goes wrong, replace it. You can't really blame them, in many cases they have never used the skills they've learned or were taught.

Using oil? The bulletin says deglaze, re-ring, but did the check ring end gap at the top and bottom of travel, did the reall clean the ring lands, did they check ring to ring land clearence, do they truly know where to position the rings, did they look at anything else that might cause oil usage?

They follow procedures, do what the bulletin calls out. When it does not work, then the company says ok, swap engine.

posted 01-24-2005 08:14 PM         

novws...now are you attacking the power industry? Gee...how well do you like thinks like heat, AC and lights, and the drywall used to make your house?

Go google flu gas desulfurization (FGD), selective catylitic reduction (SCR), lime bed / gypsum scrubber, and heat recovery steam generators. Oh, there have been some recent developments on serious mercury reduction methods in the past few months too.

We could have zero emission 100% reliable power generation & distribution in the U.S., but your monthly bill would be about $20,000. (Where wouls all the electric cars plug in to recharge???)

What we need to do is to get the indistrialized third world to clean-up their act!

posted 01-24-2005 11:45 PM         

What we need to do is to get the indistrialized third world to clean-up their act!

We are better than they are.

Actually the worst country in terms of waste, and pollution based on population. Look in the mirror. It's us.

As cars run cleaner ask yourself where a lot of that dirty air comes from. Coal fired energy plants that the government gives "trade off" credits to.