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Author
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Topic: 3 clutches later and only 92,000 miles
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dr_strangelove_1982
Junior Member
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posted 02-23-2010 11:46 PM
  
I am getting incredibly frustrated with Volkswagen. I have a 2004 GTI 1.8T, and it currently has 92,000 miles on it.
After putting about 50,000 miles on the car, the clutch went out. Had it towed to the VW dealership, cost me about $900 for new clutch, moved on with my life.
A few months and about 10,000- 20,000 miles later, the hydraulic master cylinder went out in the clutch. Same symptoms as happened the first time: car was revving with no power, broke down on the side of the highway, couldn't engage the gears. Had the car towed to an independent service station, replaced the master cylinder, $300 parts and labor, was very frustrated, and moved on with my life.
The M*** f**** clutch just went out AGAIN! Same symptoms: driving on the highway, turbo wasn't kicking in, then car slowly starts dying, engine revs, loses power, broke down on the side of the highway, had my car towed to a service station. This time it is going to cost me $1100.
From speaking with the technicians it is my understating that the clutches are supposed to last 100,000 miles. A guy at the shop said his '03 GTI's clutch lasted about 103,000 miles before he had to get it replaced. So here I am 3 clutches (well maybe 2 1/2) later over $2000 broker for a part that shouldn't have even gone out yet!
I am extremely disappointed with this sh!tty product which was a top of the line GTI at it's time worth $25,000. I am a good driver, I usually go the speed limit on the highway, I don't race, I just want a car that will work. Who knows when the next clutch will go out, next year? I don't understand this. I take care of my car, get it serviced regularly, maintain it, drive it responsibly, and this is what I end up with.Has anybody else had such repetitive issues with clutches in this beast of a vehicle? Is there any kind of legal action I can take? I will never recommend a VW to anybody. Thanks for letting me rant. IP: Logged |
fedupwvw
Member
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posted 02-24-2010 12:22 AM
If you go through the posts on this forum, you will see that premature clutch failure is not uncommon. It also sounds like VW blames the driver for the clutch failure instead of owning up to their defective design. How unusual for Volkswagen.IP: Logged |
Avgwarhawk
Member
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posted 02-24-2010 04:18 PM
It is not unusual for a clutch to last 100k+. It is not unusual for a clutch to go out at 50K. Depends on the type of clutch user the driver is. The clutch master cylinder...can never predict when those will go. As many that say there are a lot of folks posting premature clutch failure there are just as many getting 100k out of them. But hey, my moms Ford Escort dropped the transmission at 27k. But you know my mom was a two foot driver. She had the left foot on the brake and the right on the gas. She overworked the brakes and transmission. So yes, driving style plays a part. More hwy driving usually leads to long life on the clutch. City driving not so much. Look at the brightside, at least the transmission itself is ok! Sometime those gearboxes turn into gearbags! Hope your next clutch last longer! IP: Logged |
Up-The-River
Member
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posted 02-24-2010 04:39 PM
dr_strangelove_1982,It doesn't matter how many miles, who is driving it, etc... The fluid-filled dual mass flywheel used on the 1.8T is a piece of crap. Something is going wrong with the VE xmission syncro supply chain too. But will we see Hans & Frans in front of a US panel apolojizing for crappy products? Replace the 1.8T DMF with the solid set-up from a VR6 this time. Clutch headaches should disappear. BTW, Avgwarhawk, what the heck are you trying to say in your reply? Did your mom drive a 1.8T? Ford Escort??? IP: Logged |
dr_strangelove_1982
Junior Member
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posted 02-24-2010 06:57 PM
thanks all, I am a very careful driver, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to relearn how to use a clutch. I will look up youtube videos and resources about how to properly engage/ disengage the clutch and when to step on the gas. It seems I am doing it fine since my car never "jumps" when I drive it, but who knows. It's also very possible that this shitty dual flywheel system that everyone is complaining about failed miserably, since both clutches that failed on me were the VW OEM dual flywheels. The mechanics are installing the conversion VR6 clutch for me thankfully so I can rest easier knowing that. IP: Logged |
Avgwarhawk
Member
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posted 02-24-2010 07:44 PM
No UTR, point is, everyone says they are never the problem. It is always the product. Well, pushing the brake and push the gas pedal at the same time all the time bugger the transmission in my moms case. What, folks don't leave their left foot on the clutch pedal as they drive down the road applying some pressure? Sure they do. This can cause problems and premature wear on the clutch, pressure plate and pilot bearing. In short, type in 'premature clutch failure(any manufacture)' and you will find all the manufacturers suffer from this. I think we been over this before UTR. VW did not corner the market on failed clutchs. Furthermore there seems to be a commom denominator here, the clutch went at 50k and then again close to 100k. Master for the clutch not withstanding. One begins to think perhaps it is how the clutch is being used or perhaps there is a lot of city driving thus working the clutch more than hwy driving. Driving habits need to be looked at. If anything maybe something will be learned. Maybe it is engaged correctly and the parts are in fact crap. I have seen some crappy clutch users in my time. I have seen some crappy parts in my time as well. Not saying you are using the clutch incorrectly dr_strangelove just pointing out it is not always the hardware. At any rate hopefully the new clutch will carrying you another 50K plus. Nowhere is it written clutch plates are to go 200k without issue. For some reason people seem to think so because Joe' the rag pickers Honda did. But hey Jane the rag pickers Honda clutch went out at 20k. And again, but UTR will not bring it up...at least the transmission itself is in good shape. That is half the battle when it come to clutchs. Hope it is all good to go when they are done repairing it! [This message has been edited by Avgwarhawk (edited 02-24-2010).] [This message has been edited by Avgwarhawk (edited 02-24-2010).] IP: Logged |
bos
Junior Member
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posted 03-04-2010 06:21 PM
dr_strangelove...shape up or ship out!
Anyone in the automotive industry and in his clear mind will tell you this: brake and clutch premature wear are due to DRIVING HABITS. Maybe you don't want to hear that but hey! While it hurts, it's the truth! After all you just started to admit to it....And one more thing: the dual mass flywheel is put there for COMFORT OF DRIVE, just like in BMWs. I reckon you're about 28 years of age and want to be one of the 'boys' in a GTI on the streets therefore you should learn to master the clutch operation. Switching to solid flywheel, like advised above, will NOT HELP YOU since the dual mass is more forgiving for those who still learn, like you. Who said the clutch should last so many miles is in a way full of it: it will only last as long as you make it last and it's life will be reflected by - again - driving habits. You only believe to be a good driver, probably you're not. And claim to maintain your car properly and most likely not. And people like you will NOT RECOMMEND a car anymore because of their shortcomings. Get a grip on reality and stop posting just for the sake of looking for a shoulder to cry on. Good luck buddy!IP: Logged |
dr_strangelove_1982
Junior Member
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posted 03-04-2010 06:29 PM
Well let's dissect what you said- you seem very confident that it's my fault yet you have never seen me drive and have no idea what my maintenance records are, so you are relying on your own assumptions and basing them on fact, which is the definition of ignorance. And the single flywheel I now have feels smoother and shifts better than what I had before with the dual flywheel, so there goes your theory about "comfort of the drive." I've been driving clutch for 10 years so your claims of inexperience are also unfounded. Maybe VW just uses shitty parts, as other people have evidence to testify to. IP: Logged |
Up-The-River
Member
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posted 03-04-2010 08:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bos:
dr_strangelove...shape up or ship out!
Anyone in the automotive industry and in his clear mind will tell you this: brake and clutch premature wear are due to DRIVING HABITS. Maybe you don't want to hear that but hey! While it hurts, it's the truth! After all you just started to admit to it....And one more thing: the dual mass flywheel is put there for COMFORT OF DRIVE, just like in BMWs. I reckon you're about 28 years of age and want to be one of the 'boys' in a GTI on the streets therefore you should learn to master the clutch operation. Switching to solid flywheel, like advised above, will NOT HELP YOU since the dual mass is more forgiving for those who still learn, like you. Who said the clutch should last so many miles is in a way full of it: it will only last as long as you make it last and it's life will be reflected by - again - driving habits. You only believe to be a good driver, probably you're not. And claim to maintain your car properly and most likely not. And people like you will NOT RECOMMEND a car anymore because of their shortcomings. Get a grip on reality and stop posting just for the sake of looking for a shoulder to cry on. Good luck buddy!
Welcome and thanks for posting...even though you are so off base, the third-base coach thinks you are playing soccer! BMW does not use a fluid-filled DMF. I believe they use a polymer puck sandwich DMF, to smooth engagment. Only an idiot would design a friction surface, subject to thermal stresses, to hold oil internally. So a hug piston, wheel cylinder or propertioning valve burning up the brakes is a driving habit? Now you can get back to your VW service bay or tricking out your GTI for a SWEET pulling 0-80 video to post on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Agd-kkNt8 Automatic!?!?  [This message has been edited by Up-The-River (edited 03-04-2010).] IP: Logged |
bos
Junior Member
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posted 03-05-2010 09:34 PM
Well gentlemen, you're right, one makes for best driver, regardless of burning them clutches faster than a first timer driving stick (claiming 10 years behind stick shift though) and the other makes for a knowledgeable car freak who actually does not know how his example works. Kudos to you guys, but before calling me ignorant and a soccer player on a baseball field, do yourself a favour and READ some more about dual mass flywheels. There's a lot out there, it only takes... will and capacity of understanding. Also, one should NOT need youtube to learn how to use the clutch (ha-ha-ha), just like that valve is called 'proportioning'. Check this out, it will make some light in the darkness of your... beliefs: http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0701_ec_flywheels/index.html
And, if you will, we'll talk some more afterwards.IP: Logged |
Up-The-River
Member
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posted 03-06-2010 01:22 PM
bos,That ^ is old news. I read & posted that (in addition to many other resoures) long ago. If I didn't know how VW's DMF worked, I wouldn't get so pissed when I hear suckers, I mean customer, are told by the dealer that thier smoked DMF clutch is from abuse. From your EC article:
quote:
Contained within the two sections is a complex system of varying rate springs, axle and radial bearings, and lubrication. The two halves are rubber-sealed.
Now I refer to my earlier posting, above.
quote:
Only an idiot would design a friction surface, subject to thermal stresses, to hold oil internally.
So your logic, which appears to be shared by VWoA and many dealer service shops is that broken/worn seals are driver abuse. Does than mean a leaking radiator hose is driver abuse? What about a bad CV boot...abuse, too, I suppose? Would a leaky main seal be driver abuse too? So why when the DMF lets go of its oil, is it driver abuse? Here are some manufacture links to the OE VW units. http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en/sachs/products_sachs/clutches_sachs/dmf_sa chs/dmf_SACHS.html
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/document/corpor ate/press/downloads/texte_2009/tx2009-04-28_Services_ZMS-im-Aftermarket_zf.pdf
Here is an intersting link that does not put 100% fault on driver abuse: http://www.understeer.com/pdf/dualmass.pdf
And a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ Do you need more info? [This message has been edited by Up-The-River (edited 03-06-2010).] IP: Logged | |
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